Congress is giving one of the world's most popular social media platforms an ultimatum divest from China or Tik Tok will be banned in the US the house today overwhelmingly voted in favor of a bill that requires bite dance that's the Chinese parent company of Tik Tock to sell the app within 6 months or face a national ban it was a landslide vote 352 to 65 with many lawmakers arguing the app poses a threat to National Security because the Chinese government could force bite dance to hand over data on its roughly 170 million American users which is alleged to be useful to China for disinformation campaigns and even identifying us intelligence targets Tik tok's owner has denied those accusations and China today responded by equating the ban to a quote Act of bullying every member of New Jersey's house delegation voted Yes except representative Andy Kim who didn't vote and was in DC but said in a statement it would have been a no he wants Congress to take up a more comprehensive Bill protecting user data across all social media platforms the bill now faces an uphill battle in the Senate but there are plenty of groups who agree with Kim and say this is a free speech issue for more on that I'm joined by Nadine fared Johnson policy director of the night First Amendment Institute at Columbia University Nadine thanks so much for giving us a bit of your Insight today The Institute um has said that there are potential implications here when it comes to the First Amendment what are your concerns thank you so much for having me our concerns are fundamentally this is an a front to the First Amendment because Americans should have the right to access information via the social media platform of their choosing are there other avenues though that Congress could pursue uh that you see a straightforward path to to protect data privacy and security which is what they have made uh the the big Point here the issue that's exactly right because they have made data privacy the issue here and and there's some discussion here about what what could be happening to Americans data via the use of Tik Tok well what Congress could do and what Congress should do is to pass comprehensive data privacy legislation that would not only preclude the release of Americans data to apps such as Tik Tok but also to other apps such as those who are that are controlled by meta and other organizations it's critical to understand here that there are other Pathways for Congress to take that would be less burdensome on the First Amendment and that's what we would encourage Congress to do there's historical precedent here though I'm thinking about in 2020 when the US successfully got China to divest from the dating app grinder um also citing National Security issues does that not rise to the same level here when we're talking about um a foreign adversary potentially having access to info on more than a 100 million users in America well again the key here is that if if this bill were to pass now we know it has passed the house if it were to pass to the Senate again we believe there are significant First Amendment concerns with it but ultimately this bill does not solve the base issue which is that there are platforms that have access to Americans data and even with legislation China or other governments could gain access to that data via data Brokers or other means of collecting that kind of information and so it's important to recognize that there are there are other Pathways as as we've said there have been suggestions as I'm sure you've seen that perhaps um by uh Banning Tik Tock which the lawmakers say this gives uh six months for that divestment to happen not a straight out ban is what they're saying their words um that it would embolden other social media platforms uh to collect even more data with having a a app like Tik Tok out of the picture is that not an issue that you see or an affront that that could happen to data and Security in the US absolutely which is why it's really important that there be a comprehensive effort to secure Americans data via comprehensive data privacy legislation I I saw one Senator quoted that talked about this attempt to ban Tik Tok it is a functional ban even if one wants to talk about the divestment aspect of it would be akin to playing wack andall because we don't know what's next and again other platforms are able to collect this information so if there is more another attempt that is comprehensive in nature that actually seeks to prot protect Americans data that that's the path that should be taken so a I mean I I don't want to put words in your mouth but is there a fear that this could potentially open the door for similar actions like this in Congress against other platforms where folks Express uh themselves well that's exactly right and actually the bill that that passed the house earlier today actually provides the president with wide power to be able to take similar action against other foreign owned apps and the other thing that this does that is that is of concern is that it sends a signal to other countries that they can in turn quash down on their citizens access to information because if you're looking at this from a fundamental constitutional level the issue is Americans right to access information and cutting off that access does fly in the face of First Amendment principles and it's also sending a message to authoritarians that says hey we're doing it here you can do it there and we could see continued action that would be antithetical to us values that we try to export around the world but when you're talking about an adversary like China like the Communist Party could there not be uh greater good perhaps which is what some are arguing who are in support of this bill um to take away a platform like that in order to provide uh more National Security so we have heard the National Security argument and of course there are concerns about Tik Tok and other platforms having access to Americans data but again what Congress has to do when it when it when it puts forth such a law is to be able to show that this is the path that is most narrowly tailored to achieve the government's interest in protecting Americans in this particular sense right now we have not seen that they have done so and again because there are other paths that are clear including the passage of privacy legislation including limiting data Brokers access to information those are the steps that can be taken and should be taken with urgency in order to protect Americans privacy without infringing upon their first amendment rights Nadine fared Johnson is the policy director at the KN First Amendment Institute at Columbia University thank you so much thank you